Conversation with Catholic Convertskii

Saw this on facebook with a Catholic friend of mine:

Catholic Convertskii, after bashing Calvinism:  Yeah, if you read Calvin you’ll be amazed at some of the wack things he said.

Other Catholic:  How much Calvin have you read?

Convertskii:  About 1/3 of the Institutes.

This is why Wedgeworth and others ridiculed the convertskii movement so much.   Convertskii as a general rule have’t read deeply in the Reformed tradition.  If you haven’t read Calvin, then you have’t really wrestled with the heart-issues of the system.  Now, is it necessary to read Calvin and Musculus to really arrive at the truth?  No.  But if you are claiming to pursue the truth and address all of the major concerns, you have to read Calvin (especially…gasp…if you are refuting Calvinism!).

I refuted this same gentleman on Thomism earlier in the year.  And the reason I felt so successful was that I had read at least 1500 pages of the 2500 of Summa Theologiae.  I plan to finish the whole thing by next May, deo Volente.  I knew the issues.   Even though I didn’t agree with Aquinas, I respected the system and really understood what he was aiming for.

This gentleman wrote a slam today on Facebook where he was asking how Calvinists could say that they “couldn’t fall from grace when Paul says in Galatians that you can.”   If he is arguing against Calvinistic Baptists, it’s a strong argument.   Reformed Presbyterians, however, believe in the doctrine of the Covenant.   The covenant is unconditional in its essence but quite conditional in its administration.  Of course, had he read Calvin he would have known that.

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5 comments on “Conversation with Catholic Convertskii

  1. Eric Castleman says:

    I agree, though, I doubt that this same standard is upheld when people convert to Calvinism from Rome. Is there any requirement within the Presbyterian confessions, or even an upheld agreement by Westminster, or does Wedgeworth feel as though “we are correct, so that process isn’t the same”? Those words were actually spoken by a reformed pastor apologist before a debate against a Catholic apologist, when asked what Catholic literature he has read.

    But, I agree. Rome has a quick trigger finger, and doesn’t require anyone to be analyze their prior position, or, why they are so unstable and choosing tradition after tradition. My priest, and other Orthodox priests have a requirement that one must have a good explanation, along with a long wait for entrance into the church. Though, some Greek parishes have become weak on this, typically it is the process that is required.

  2. ***Is there any requirement within the Presbyterian confessions, or even an upheld agreement by Westminster, or does Wedgeworth feel as though “we are correct, so that process isn’t the same”? ***

    Meaning, do the Reformed churches have criteria on leaving Reformed church and going elsewhere? I am not aware of any, though common decency usually demands one be familiar and give cogent arguments. As to what Wedge may or may not believe on this matter, I do not pretend knowledge of his thoughts.

    I’ve read more Thomas Aquinas than 99.99% of Roman Catholics. I’ve read everything Kreeft has written (and listened to all of his lectures). As a general rule, I do not read “pop apologetics,” be it Romanist or Calvinist.

  3. Benjamin P. Glaser says:

    The lack of in depth reading is unfortunately not only a RC problem. The Reformed world is full of wikipedia-level learning and guru hunting.

    • Amen. All seminaries must be required to put Buchanan’s work on justification in the curriculum. There is no excuse. Very few really grasp the difference between means, grounds, and end.

      • Benjamin P. Glaser says:

        And just to be clear I am not exempting myself from that characterization. I have spent seemingly every hour since graduating from a liberal mainline seminary realizing how little I know and how much depth there is in the Reformed world. Thanks to the wonderful world of Google Books and Archive.org for making a slew of works that will never be reprinted available for me to read.

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